Wittman tailwind

[Harry O]

From memory, the differences were slight. The wing airfoil was different.
The W-10 has a curve on the bottom where the W-8 was flat. I understand
that there were 2 or 3 inches of extra width in the fuselage. Also, the
W-10 was stressed for larger (Lycoming) engines. I built the airframe for a
W-10 and talked with Mr. Wittman about it a couple of times. I also saw him
at Oshkosh several times and talked with him in person once. He was a VERY
thin man and medium height. I can easily understand the change in the
fuselage.

He did not think much of people who put in Lycoming 0-290's or 0-320's (like
I was going to do). He much preferred the 85hp Continental. When I talked
to him, I found out that he was turning his little engine at about 3,200
rpm -- way, WAY over readline. It was putting out as much HP as the larger
(and heavier) Lycomings. He did say that he had to overhaul it about every
400 hours. Since he did it himself (rather than hiring an A&E), he did not
think that it was a problem at all.

Can somebody tell me where to find the difference between a W-8 and a W-10

?

[Richard Lamb]

W-10 fuselage is a little bit longer and has a bit more room in the
cockpit area (especially if built as a "C" model - ala Jim Clement).
The -10 will carry a larger motor (if you really want),
very effective wing tips added,
reshaped fin and rudder,
and slightly larger stab/elevator.

Can somebody tell me where to find the difference between a W-8 and a W-10 ?
Dan

[BD5ER]

Can somebody tell me where to find the difference between a W-8 and a W-10 ?

Start here?

http://www.chlassociates.com/Aviation/tailwind.htm

[Richard Lamb]

Post by Harry O
From memory, the differences were slight. The wing airfoil was different.
The W-10 has a curve on the bottom where the W-8 was flat. I understand
that there were 2 or 3 inches of extra width in the fuselage. Also, the
W-10 was stressed for larger (Lycoming) engines. I built the airframe for a
W-10 and talked with Mr. Wittman about it a couple of times. I also saw him
at Oshkosh several times and talked with him in person once. He was a VERY
thin man and medium height. I can easily understand the change in the
fuselage.
He did not think much of people who put in Lycoming 0-290's or 0-320's (like
I was going to do). He much preferred the 85hp Continental. When I talked
to him, I found out that he was turning his little engine at about 3,200
rpm -- way, WAY over readline. It was putting out as much HP as the larger
(and heavier) Lycomings. He did say that he had to overhaul it about every
400 hours. Since he did it himself (rather than hiring an A&E), he did not
think that it was a problem at all.

Can somebody tell me where to find the difference between a W-8 and a W-10

?

The FIRST W-8 wing was a flat bottomed affair.

The "round" airfoil was first flown on the W-8, which leads to some
confusion.

It was incorporated into the -10 along with the trucated triangle wing
tips.
The wing is all-wood, laminated spars(?), truss ribs, and plywood skin.


Most of the new Tailwinds ar W-10's with O-320's in them.
They average 750 to 850 pounds.

And yes, there are a few O-360 powered dragsters flying.

My W-10 has an O-290-D2 Lycoming (rated 135 hp at 2750?)
I'm trying to keep it fairly light, but functional for cross country
flying.

Mainly, I want to keep it as aerodynamically clean as possible.

Anybody remember a Turner T-40 named "Ophelia Bumps"?




A friend had an O-200 powered W-8, which is a sweet machine for her age.
Cruises about 155 mph...

[Barnyard BOb --]

Post by Richard Lamb
Anybody remember a Turner T-40 named "Ophelia Bumps"?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nope, but Turner's Book...

"Fabulous Affairs with Aircraft and
Federal Aviation Airheads" $19.95 ea.

May still be available through...
Turner Aircraft and CAVU Books
P.O. Box 74
Cleburne, TX 76033-0074

FWIW...
The first "Ophelia Bumps"
appears to be a WWII B-24
of the 454th BOb Group.


Barnyard BOb --

[Barnyard BOb --]

Post by Barnyard BOb --

Post by Richard Lamb
Anybody remember a Turner T-40 named "Ophelia Bumps"?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nope, but Turner's Book...
"Fabulous Affairs with Aircraft and
Federal Aviation Airheads" $19.95 ea.
May still be available through...
Turner Aircraft and CAVU Books
P.O. Box 74
Cleburne, TX 76033-0074
FWIW...
The first "Ophelia Bumps"
appears to be a WWII B-24
of the 454th BOmb Group.
Barnyard BOb --

[Peter Dohm]

I only met Steve Wittman once, when he had brought his inverted V8 tailwind
to Sun-n-Fun, and didn't talk that long; and then only about the V8.

I was not aware that he turned his C85 at 3200 RPM, although it makes good
sense given his orientation. Steve was reputed to have long advocated that
homebuilt aircraft with small certified engines like the C85 cruise at 85%.

The rationale was that most homebuilt aircraft are operated less than 80
hours per year and that rust is the true enemy, rather than wear; so that a
conservatively operated engine will never reach its certified TBO. Thus,
since most homebuilt aircraft also operate at lower altitudes where higher
cruising power can be attained, the hypothesis suggests that it is really
more conservative to operate the lighter and less expensive engine at the
higher power setting.

I do not entirely agree with the concept, mainly because it does not give
a lot of extra thrust for takeoff and initial climb on a really slick and
fast modern aircraft with a fixed pitch propeller. However, I must admit
that it makes a lot of sense for most designs from the 50's 60's and 70's.

Peter

Post by Harry O
From memory, the differences were slight. The wing airfoil was different.
The W-10 has a curve on the bottom where the W-8 was flat. I understand
that there were 2 or 3 inches of extra width in the fuselage. Also, the
W-10 was stressed for larger (Lycoming) engines. I built the airframe for a
W-10 and talked with Mr. Wittman about it a couple of times. I also saw him
at Oshkosh several times and talked with him in person once. He was a VERY
thin man and medium height. I can easily understand the change in the
fuselage.
He did not think much of people who put in Lycoming 0-290's or 0-320's (like
I was going to do). He much preferred the 85hp Continental. When I talked
to him, I found out that he was turning his little engine at about 3,200
rpm -- way, WAY over readline. It was putting out as much HP as the larger
(and heavier) Lycomings. He did say that he had to overhaul it about every
400 hours. Since he did it himself (rather than hiring an A&E), he did not
think that it was a problem at all.

Can somebody tell me where to find the difference between a W-8 and a W-10

?

[Peter Dohm]

It seems that I did not think the implications all the way through before I
pressed the "send" button.

Running the C85 at 3200 RPM should result in around 125% power, so that a
cruise setting of 85% power would be around 65% of the "available" power.
Therefore, a clean little airplane like the Tailwind would actually have
a greater (rather than less) surplus thrust for take off and initial climb.

The note of caution would be that full throttle would be take off only,
and not maximum continuous; so the pilot would have to understand the
limitations and treat it like a high performance engine rather than like
a trainer engine.

Peter

Post by Peter Dohm
I only met Steve Wittman once, when he had brought his inverted V8 tailwind
to Sun-n-Fun, and didn't talk that long; and then only about the V8.
I was not aware that he turned his C85 at 3200 RPM, although it makes good
sense given his orientation. Steve was reputed to have long advocated that
homebuilt aircraft with small certified engines like the C85 cruise at 85%.
The rationale was that most homebuilt aircraft are operated less than 80
hours per year and that rust is the true enemy, rather than wear; so that a
conservatively operated engine will never reach its certified TBO. Thus,
since most homebuilt aircraft also operate at lower altitudes where higher
cruising power can be attained, the hypothesis suggests that it is really
more conservative to operate the lighter and less expensive engine at the
higher power setting.
I do not entirely agree with the concept, mainly because it does not give
a lot of extra thrust for takeoff and initial climb on a really slick and
fast modern aircraft with a fixed pitch propeller. However, I must admit
that it makes a lot of sense for most designs from the 50's 60's and 70's.
Peter

Post by Harry O
From memory, the differences were slight. The wing airfoil was different.
The W-10 has a curve on the bottom where the W-8 was flat. I understand
that there were 2 or 3 inches of extra width in the fuselage. Also, the
W-10 was stressed for larger (Lycoming) engines. I built the airframe for a
W-10 and talked with Mr. Wittman about it a couple of times. I also saw him
at Oshkosh several times and talked with him in person once. He was a VERY
thin man and medium height. I can easily understand the change in the
fuselage.
He did not think much of people who put in Lycoming 0-290's or 0-320's (like
I was going to do). He much preferred the 85hp Continental. When I talked
to him, I found out that he was turning his little engine at about 3,200
rpm -- way, WAY over readline. It was putting out as much HP as the larger
(and heavier) Lycomings. He did say that he had to overhaul it about every
400 hours. Since he did it himself (rather than hiring an A&E), he did not
think that it was a problem at all.

Can somebody tell me where to find the difference between a W-8 and a W-10

?

[Kyle Boatright]

Post by Peter Dohm
It seems that I did not think the implications all the way through before I
pressed the "send" button.
Running the C85 at 3200 RPM should result in around 125% power, so that a
cruise setting of 85% power would be around 65% of the "available" power.
Therefore, a clean little airplane like the Tailwind would actually have
a greater (rather than less) surplus thrust for take off and initial climb.
The note of caution would be that full throttle would be take off only,
and not maximum continuous; so the pilot would have to understand the
limitations and treat it like a high performance engine rather than like
a trainer engine.
Peter

Most of the faster homebuilts with fixed pitch props don't generate maximum
power at takeoff simply because the props have so much pitch the engine
can't spin 'em to peak rpm.

The EZ crowd discovered this years ago. If I wanted to spend a couple of
hours reading old issues of "Canard Pusher" or whatever the appropriate
newsletter was, I could find a cite by the Rutan Aircraft Factory where they
recommend a slightly underpitched prop which would allow more than the
*certified* max RPM. This was primarily done to allow the engine to
generate more RPM and power at takeoff.

In my 0-320 RV-6, the engine only turns 2100 rpm on takeoff. As the
airplane accelerates, the rpm's increase as does my climb rate. The airplane
climbs better at 125 knots than 100, simply because the engine is generating
quite a few more horsepower.

KB